Archive for June, 2009

Compression and Leakdown Testing

June 30th, 2009

Since I’m going to need to do this, I thought it would be a great idea do do a little research on it first.  I found a great article at aa1car.com that explains these tests and how to interpret the results of a compression test or leakdown test. 

By the way, it looks like the testing equipment is available for under $40….that was good news.  Below is how they explain these tests….if you’re not familiar with them you should definately read this.

A compression test will tell you if your engine has good compression. An engine is essentially a self-powered air pump, so it needs good compression to run efficiently, cleanly and to start easily.

As a rule, most engines should have 140 to 160 lbs. Of cranking compression with no more than 10% difference between any of the cylinders.

Low compression in one cylinder usually indicates a bad exhaust valve. Low compression in two adjacent cylinders typically means you have a bad head gasket. Low compression in all cylinders would tell you the rings and cylinders are worn and the engine needs to be overhauled.

HOW TO CHECK COMPRESSION

Compression can be checked two ways: manually with a compression gauge, or electronically with an engine analyzer the measures cranking compression. With electronic testing, a computer analyzer estimates compression in each of the engine’s cylinders by measuring slight variations in engine cranking speed.

The results correlate well with actual gauge readings, and can be completed in a matter of minutes without having to remove any spark plugs. What’s more, the analyzer prints out the results of the compression test making it easy to see and compare the actual numbers.

 

To check compression manually with a gauge, all the spark plugs must be removed. The ignition coil must then disabled or the high tension lead grounded. If the engine has a distributorless ignition, the ignition coils must be disabled to prevent them from firing. The throttle must also be held open.

The engine is then cranked for a few seconds using a remote starter switch or a helper while a compression gauge is held in a spark plug hole.

The maximum compression reading is noted, then the process is repeated for each of the remaining cylinders.

The individual cylinder readings are then compared to see if the results are within specifications (always refer to a manual for the exact compression figures for your engine because they do vary from

the ballpark figures quoted earlier).

 

IS IT THE RINGS OR THE VALVES?

If compression is low in one or more cylinders, you can isolate the problem to the valves or rings by squirting a little 30 weight motor oil into the cylinder through the spark plug hole and repeating the compression test. The oil temporarily seals the rings.

If the compression readings are higher the second time around, it means the rings and/or cylinder is worn. No change in the compression readings would tell you the cylinder has a bad valve.

A leakdown or cylinder leakage test is similar to a compression test in that it tells you how well your engine’s cylinders are sealing. But instead of measuring pressure, it measures pressure loss.

A leak down test requires the removal of all the spark plugs. The crankshaft is then turned so that each piston is at top dead center (both valves closed) when each cylinder is tested. Most people start with cylinder number one and follow the engine’s firing order.

A threaded coupling attached to a leakage gauge is screwed into a spark plug hole. Compressed air (80 to 90 psi) is then fed into the cylinder.

An engine is great condition should generally show only 5 to 10% leakage. An engine that’s still in pretty good condition may show up to 20% leakage. But more than 30% leakage indicates trouble.

The neat thing about a leakage test (as opposed to a compression test) is that it’s faster and easier to figure out where the pressure is going. If you hear air coming out of the tailpipe, it indicates a leaky exhaust valve. Air coming out of the throttle body or carburetor would point to a leaky intake valve. Air coming out of the breather vent or PCV valve fitting would tell you the rings and/or cylinders are worn.

A leakage test can also be used in conjunction with a compression test to diagnose other kinds of problems.

A cylinder that has poor compression but minimal leakage usually has a valvetrain problem such as a worn cam lobe, broken valve spring, collapsed lifter, bent push rod, etc.

If all the cylinders have low compression but show minimal leakage, the most likely cause is incorrect valve timing. The timing belt or chain may be off a notch or two.

If compression is good and leakage is minimal, but a cylinder is misfiring or shows up weak in a power balance test, it indicates a fuel delivery (bad injector) or ignition problem (fouled spark plug or bad plug wire).

 

 

CL200 Disappointing Setback

June 29th, 2009

1974 Honda CL200 - The tachometer housing may be the source of the oil.1974 Honda CL200 - This is the oily mess that is coming out of the exhaust port or the tachomter housingWell folks, I guess whenever you get into projects like these, you have to accept that at anytime you may stumble upon a huge setback….one that just takes the wind out of your sails. 

I guess it’s not that dramatic, but I have come to an enormous setback on what I’m considering phase I of this project, which is to just get it running properly.

I did get the carbs back on and it DID start nicely and run on both cylinders…that was a major milestone.  The problem is that it has no power.  When you let out the clutch it can barely chug along at all before stalling.  Also, I noticed that just pushing it in gear while it’s not running is really far too easy.  The back tire should be almost (if not completely) skidding but it’s not.

Without even looking into clutch issues, it definately seems to be a lack of compression.  I’ll have to get the compression tested (maybe see how much that tool costs – may be handy for later use).  Also, I’ve started shopping on ebay to get a new set of rings and a complete set of top end gaskets.  I’m REALLY hoping that once it’s apart I won’t find any cracked heads or pistons or anything like that.  The fact that it runs ok and there’s no smoke pouring out of it seems to indicate that it’s probably worn piston rings.

The other thing I noticed is that there’s a whole lot of oily mess that seems to be blowing out of the loose (as I found out) right hand exhaust port (see the pictures above) or out of the tachometer housing.

All in all. this really isn’t a huge deal, but it does kind of kill my plans to have it running in July.  Engine overhauls are beyond my expertise so I’m looking for someone that will do it really cheap.  I propably wouldn’t mind doing it myself in order to learn, but parts for this bike are rare and expensive.  I guess this is a lesson learned – don’t choose a rare bike for a learning project.  However, what’s started is started and it’s gonna get finished.

Welcome New Members

June 29th, 2009

I wanted to personally welcome Suzuki71 and nmaxxs as new members to this site.  Thank you for joining the Vintage Bike Riders community.  I know there isn’t a ton of stuff on this site yet because it’s pretty new, but as time goes on this site will be packed full of great stuff.

You have the ability to post to this site, so please feel free to contribute, comment, whatever.  Thanks!

Brian

CL200 – Making Progress

June 27th, 2009

Some good news.  I started it this morning and it IS running on both cylinders now.  The idle is set way too high, and it’s running kind of crappy in general, but that’s nothing major.  Some fuel is coming out of the left hand overflow now…but not nearly as much as was coming out of the right side before getting it fixed.

When I get home for work…..I think it’s time to try throwing it into gear and taking some test runs down the street.

CL200 – Carbs are back on

June 26th, 2009

Well folks, I’m like a kid the night before Christmas.  I got my carbs back today but by the time I got them reinstalled, it was after 10:00 PM.  I gave it a quick start but shut it right back off.

I think first thing in the morning I’m gonna fire it up.  One good thing is that the right carb doesn’t seem to be spewing fuel anymore.

I also took this opportunity to install some inline fuel filters, because the tank is still pretty gritty.  I did put in some gas and nuts and bolts and shake it all around – but it will need much MUCH more shaking.

If I start it in the morning and it’s running on two cylinders…..I’m gonna call this a major milestone on this project.

True True.

June 25th, 2009

From Old Bike Barn’s site:

Time To Take Your Old Vintage Bike Out of the Barn

triumph-blog

by William Sidney

Trying to find parts for vintage Japanese and European motorcycles can make the task of rebuilding or restoring one of these bikes practically impossible

NOS parts are often little more than universal-use electrical parts, while aftermarket supplies are limited to only the most popular motorcycles built at the time. The question becomes, then, where do you find new or better-condition parts for your rebuild project? If you’ve got two hundred salvage yards down the road, you might come close to the answer. Thankfully, though, your property values don’t have to suffer for you to rebuild that old motorcycle. The good folks at Old Bike Barn have found a way to streamline the process of scouring through junkyards nationwide by giving customers the option of utilizing their Virtual Parts Finder. The service provides you with the opportunity to have your parts request instantly submitted to Old Bike Barn’s nationwide network of over two hundred motorcycle salvage yards.  The form literally takes less than a minute to fill out, and offers a box in which you can input specific requests or additional information.  The response from the Virtual Parts Finder is quick and efficient, providing several options from which to choose.  Chances are, if you’re rebuilding a rare or single-year production motorcycle, perhaps even one that might have been popular, but didn’t survive much past the chopper-crazy seventies, than the Used Parts Lookup service is your best way to go about finding usable salvage parts.

Old Bike Barn prides itself in being the most user-friendly vintage motorcycle parts retailer on the internet, and it shows.  Rather than a detached, SUV-loving crew of computer techs, the family at Old Bike Barn are the kind of approachable, fun-loving bikers you’d be likely to find at your local cruise-in.  Ask a question, and the depth of experience you’ll find will give you the insight to complete your project, whether it’s your dad’s old late-sixties Honda restoration, or a custom café-racer.  Many of the parts you’ll be able to find on the Old Bike Barn site, particularly with the Virtual Parts Finder, aren’t to be found elsewhere on the internet, or are so outrageously priced, that they’ll make your head spin.  Old Bike Barn, and in particular Barrie Haughton, Old Bike Barn’s Founder & CEO, take a vested interest in keeping the classics running rather than rusting, and making it happen in a way that helps, rather than hinders, the people who love the classic bikes as much as the crew at OBB do.  They do this by offering the kind of low-overhead and rare parts that other retailers either don’t have the space or the desire to offer.  Looking for bodywork for a newer bike?  The folks at Old Bike Barn can find it for you through the Virtual Parts Finder, and at a substantially lower price than you’ll find anywhere else.

CL200 Carbs – Getting Closer!

June 24th, 2009

I had this excellent experience today.  I took the carbs to a guy in Mentor that replied to my Craigslist posting for some help.  When he’s done with them, and with his approval, I will do a nice posting about him, his shop, and of course his meticulously restored CL350 that’s also his daily rider.

Anyway, this guy is living the dream.  He just finished grad school and has a really good day job but he also has a little garage in Mentor where he mostly keeps his excellent collection of motor toys and does little side jobs in order to pay for the place.

So anyway he starts taking the carbs apart on the spot and immediately shows me where I went wrong, explains what he’s doing, and mostly got them fixed…I think.  I ran out of time so I’ll pick them up later in the week.

The really exceptional thing was that rather than just tell me to go buy a bunch of parts (that we both know are extremely hard to find for this bike), he actually put the effort in to work with what I have. 

Here’s what he found (and is almost done fixing):

  • Left carb (the one where gas was not making it past the float) – the jets were both still extremely clogged as well as a bunch of other parts that I didn’t even see because they were so covered with debris and gunk.  As far as I know, this one is good to go.
  • Right carb (the one that was getting fuel into the engine but spewing just as much fuel out the overflow tube) – same story as with the left carb, but he also found that one of the floats has a hole in it.

Now it makes perfect sense.  The float valve is working (as I thought it was) but the float is filling with gas and is too heavy to go up far enough to stop the flow of fuel.  Therefore, fuel keeps coming in and right back out the overflow hose.  He got  all of the really rotten old gas out of the float and is working on plugging it with a really delicate soldering procedure.

Also, since both idle jets were completely clogged, it makes sense now why it won’t idle..duh!

I am not only totally psyched up about the good change that this bike will finally be running by the weekend, but I also learned so much about carburetors today.  The mystery boxes now make sense to me.  Well, the learning is very much one of the most exciting reasons to get into a bike restore.

Honda CL200 Electrical Items

June 23rd, 2009

I figured with the downtime while I get the carbs done (dropping those off tomorrow), I would address some of the electrical issues.  I found some loose wires while I had the headlight off.  I tightened some of the connectors, hooked up the new left hand controls, and yeah – high beans now work.  The tach’s light is also now working, but still not the speedometer light or guage itself.  Also, the right turn signals are now working (sort of – but thre’s either a loose wire or the relay is bad because they blink ultra fast).  The left front turn signal is working, but not the rear.  I put in some different bulbs, but I’m not sure if they are working either (pulled from the CB360).

Anyway, electrical is looking pretty good – just a few loose ends.  I need to find a new rubber boot for hte high beam indicator light…good luck!!!

Broken high bean indicator bulb holder on the CB200

HondaRestoration.com

June 23rd, 2009

This site is awesome for vintage Honda stuff…

Restoration Advice

June 22nd, 2009

Here’s some good advice I found today at http://motorcycleviews.com/general/restoreabike.htm.  I read tons of articles like this before I started on my CB360…but impatience got the best of me!!  For the CL200, I think I’m on the right track. 

Restore a Motorcycle

Sooner or later every motorcyclist gets an urge to restore an old motorcycle. Most don’t act on it. Some riders have a dream to restore an old motorcycle they’ve seen or remember from their youth. A few of these actually see the restoration through to completion. Here are some thoughts about motorcycle restoration and a few tips about how to do it.

I read a book called Rebuilding the Indian — A Memoir, by Fred Haefele shortly after I became an About.com Guide. Here’s an excerpt from a review I wrote about the book:

 

    “The author was a 51-year-old tree surgeon, an ex-professor with an unsuccessful novel, when he decided he wanted to put $5,000 into a basketcase of Indian motorcycle parts. His dream was to convert the pile of parts into a restored 1941 Indian Chief motorcycle. You learn the process that one goes through to completely restore an old motorcycle but more importantly, you see the transformation of a restorer into a new man, a man he thought he would never become.” 

 I also found another book, The Restoration of Vintage & Thoroughbred Motorcycles, by Jeff Clew. This book was first published in England in 1976 and reprinted in 1996. It has 18 chapters covering: Finding a machine; The workshop; The Restoration Plan; The Frame and Forks; Wheels, Tires and Brakes; Seats; Gearboxes; Engines; Ignition Systems; Carburetor and Exhaust Systems; Accessories; Sidecars; etc.

Here are six tips I culled from this book to get you started restoring an old bike. Consult the book for all the details.

 

  • Finding a Machine
    Get experienced advice from people who have restored motorcycles. Join a national vintage motorcycle club with many members. Decide how much of a restoration you want. Don’t buy a basketcase of parts because it may just be what’s left over after another restorer gave up. When you find something that interests you, don’t delay. It may be gone if you take too much time deciding.
  • The Workshop
    Use what you have but make sure it’s warm and dry and you have a good workbench with a strong vise. The area should have adequate lighting and handy electrical outlets. Take inventory of existing tools and weed out those that may cause damage during restoration.
  • The Plan
    Take detailed pictures of your bike at the beginning so you remember where all the parts go. Thoroughly examine the machine to determine what needs to be done. If the machine has scattered parts not attached, add them to the bike so you are sure what items may be missing. Assign boxes to major components as you disassemble to restore the bike. Make sketches and drawings of parts, electrical connections, etc. before disassembling. Decide what can be reused and what needs to be redone. Decide if you will do the individual work or have it done for you. Draw up a schedule to complete the various jobs. Be relaxed in the restoration but do stick to a schedule or it will never get finished.
  • Engine
    If a spark plug has been removed before you bought the bike, be wary that the pistons may have seized. Special procedures are necessary to free everything up. Engine renovation may best be left to a specialist contractor unless you are experienced.
  • Carburetor and Exhaust Systems
    Carburetors suffer the most wear and may need to be replaced. Be sure to take the old unit with you as you seek out a replacement. Previous owners may have the wrong parts installed. Be careful that the muffler system is solidly mounted and no air leaks are present.
  • Preserving and Storage
    Most restored machines aren’t used that much. You need to store the bike in a warm, dry area. Always clean it after each use. Keep it locked up so it won’t be stolen. Don’t leave registration and other papers with the machine. Take special precautions with the battery and stabilize the fuel if you expect the machine to not be ridden for a long time.

Weekend with the CL200

June 22nd, 2009

I meant to post a few times over the weekend, but just never had the chance.  I sold the CB360 on Friday, so that’s no longer a project.  As with all projects on this site, the content will stay.  I’ll try to get a few older pictures of the CB360 project posted so that anyonce can look.

Well, here’s what’s going on with the CL2o0…

  • Both carbs are having problems.  I cleaned out the left carb and fuel is still not making it past the bowl.  I’m hoping this isn’t a problem with engine compression (suction in this case).  I did pull the plug and verify that there is strong spark.  I may try to pick up some compression guage just to verify.
  • I figured out that the fuel leak is from the right carb…the one that I THOUGHT was working.  Well, it gets fuel into the engine just fine but the float valve is obviously sticking because fuel is pouring out of the overflow host as fast as it comes in from the tank.

Well, as much as I want to learn to do this for myself, I really want the bike on the road in July so I’m going to take the carbs to experts this week and get them professionally overhauled.

While they’re in the shop I’m going to blast out the tank too, because with the amount of junk coming out of the tank, the newly rebuilt carbs will be clogged up in no time.

So, I don’t anticipate many project updates on this for the next week.  I’ll try to post some other good into though, so please stay tuned.

Per the suggestion submitted to this site, I am soaking my carb in pure acetone.  Look at all of the nastiness that came off.

Carb cleaning tip

June 18th, 2009

I got this tip from a very helpful person named Billy, in response to my ad for someone to rebuild my CL200 carbs for me:

Get a can of acetone from Home Depo or Lowes etc. Soak your carb parts in that… The second option is called MEK. Methyl Ethyl Ketone.. another “hot” solvent that will dissolve just about any thing…..

Use a low powered air compressor on the parts which should be wrapped in a t shirt to catch any tiny bearing that are used for check balls or seals while blowing the ports and passages open… These “hot” solvents do NOT harm metal but will screw up any/most other plastic type materials..DO NOT use a fine wire or torch tip cleaner on any holes.. Will only ruin the carb.  Only taake a few minutes of soaking and blowing out..

I may try this to save some $$$ prior to paying for the carbs to be rebuilt.

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